Thursday, March 21, 2013

The Bible with NO TORAH INVOLVED ? Very Cool ???

119 Ministries Test Everything is a False Teaching Cult shared a link.
March 7
VERY COOL!!! MUST READ!!!!

"The Bible" NO "torah" INVOLVED!!!!
The FOUNDATION of the whole Word of YHWH, the Bible is the Torah.

 15 Because you said, "We made a covenant with death, we made a contract with Sh'ol. When the raging flood passes through, it will not touch us. For we have made lies our refuge and hid ourselves in falsehoods"
16 therefore here is what Adonai ELOHIM says: "Look, I am laying in Tziyon a tested stone, a costly CORNERSTONE, a firm FOUNDATION-stone; he who trusts will not rush here and there.
17 I will make justice the plumbline and righteousness the plumb-bob; hail will sweep away the refuge of lies, water will overflow the hiding place,
18 your covenant with death will be annulled, and your contract with Sh'ol will not stand. When the raging flood passes through, you will be trampled down by it.
Isaiah 28:15-18

17 Also, when he came, he announced as Good News shalom to you far off and shalom to those nearby,
18 news that through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.
19 So then, you are no longer foreigners and strangers. On the contrary, you are fellow-citizens with God's people and members of God's family.
20 You have been built on the FOUNDATION of the emissaries and the prophets, with the CORNERSTONE being Yeshua the Messiah himself.
21 In union with him the whole building is held together, and it is growing into a holy temple in union with the Lord.
22 Yes, in union with him, you yourselves are being built together into a spiritual dwelling-place for God!
Ephesians 2:19-22
Unlike ·  · Share · March 7
  • You, Elizabeth TylerDawn Rosenquist and 4 others like this.
  • Patricia Tyson This person doesn't know basic bible! Who argues that??
    March 7 at 11:13pm via mobile · Like · 3
  • Faith, Grace & Torah So mad that he won't allow comments. The thing of all this that gets me is he says they never use any other part of the bible and that just proves he does not watch the videos.
    March 7 at 11:15pm via mobile · Like · 3
  • Patricia Tyson He doesn't read scripture!!
    March 7 at 11:15pm via mobile · Like · 2
  • Diane Joy Walden That is a fact...
  • Diane Joy Walden Mark B... Should learn... Not so bright...
  • Elizabeth TylerDawn Rosenquist Yes, it is obvious he doesn't watch -- he doesn't even seem to know that they use the name Jesus all the time!
  • Elizabeth TylerDawn Rosenquist Wait -- is JGIG saying Torah is not the primary part of the Bible? For one heck of a long time it was all there was! David would not have had more than the Torah, plus Job, Joshua and Judges. The Torah is the foundation of the Bible, it's the dictionary, it's what everything else was based on. Righteousness and love and grace are all defined in the Torah. Circumcision of the heart is defined by Torah! Humility and Obedience and Faith are all defined in Torah! Without Torah we just go ahead and make up definitions. Without Torah we cannot prove to the Jews that Yeshua is Messiah because the prophets are built on the foundation of the Torah -- it's practically all they talked about, but unless you know Torah, you don't see the references. Ugh, can you imagine a literature professor teaching War & Peace only having read the last third of the book? We need every single word of it!!!!!
  • Bobbijo Christiansen I think many of the New Testament only people's don't even read the ot. Nor do they understand thwt in the times of Yeshua the was no nt!
  • Elizabeth TylerDawn Rosenquist I know i was shocked when I found out, I blush now at that admission.....
  • Joyfully Growing In Grace Elizabeth, Torah is a part of the Scriptures. The Torah is the first five books of 66 books. Then there are the Prophets, the Writings, and the New Covenant Scriptures. Come on . . . this is Bible 101 stuff . . . you guys know this, right?
  • 119 Ministries Test Everything is a False Teaching CultThank you so much guys! We are flattered that you help spew the TRUTH all over yourself!!! 
  • Eric Turner Joyfully Growing in Grace, I am assuming you get that name from 2 Peter 3 no????2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 
    2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 
    2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of LAWLESS people and lose your own stability. 
    2Pe 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
  • Eric Turner Het look who it is, now that we won't block you, how about some real duscussion on scripture since you say we teach Falsely.
  • Joyfully Growing In Grace The only righteousness is the Righteousness of Christ. If one is in Christ, they are righteous (Rom. 5, 2 Cor. 5:17-21). Peter was speaking of those who are lawless; those would be the folks attempting to establish their *own* righteousness.

    As for Peter saying that Paul's letters are hard to understand, note that Paul rebuked Peter for going back under Law; those who do the same have a hard time understanding Paul. Those who walk in the Gospel of Grace have no problem understanding Paul at all .
  • David Sullivan Next thing you know there will be a group called Psalm 119 is a false teaching cult ~ is a false teaching cult.
  • Faith, Grace & Torah Joyfully Growing In Grace 

    Can you provide a scripture reference as to when Paul rebuked peter for going back under the law? 

    Also 2 Peter 3:16 makes it very clear that those who misunderstand paul are those who do not know the scriptures, (Torah and the Prophets) and the end result is LAWLESSNESS. It seems to fit the bill doesn't it!
  • Faith, Grace & Torah David, that's funny 
  • Eric Turner The Only Righteousness is the Righteousness of Yeshua?????? Rom 2:11 For God does not show partiality. 
    Rom 2:12 For all who have sinned apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 
    Rom 2:13 For it is not merely those who hear the law who are RIGHTEOUS in God's sight. No, it is those who do the law, who will be justified. 
    Rom 2:14 For whenever gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 
    Rom 2:15 They show that what the law requires is written in their hearts, a fact to which their own consciences testify, and their thoughts will either accuse or excuse them 
    Rom 2:16 on that day when God, through Jesus Christ, will judge people's secrets according to my gospel. 
    .............Mat 6:1 "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of people in order to be noticed by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. 
    ///////////How do you PRACTICE believing in Yehsua???? Deu 6:24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. 
    Deu 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us. ...........1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 
    1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 
    1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 
    1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 
    1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 
    1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 
    1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 
    1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
  • Bernard Yosef Honigfort 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as when you were called you were called to one hope. 
    5 And there is one Lord, one faith, one immersion, 
    6 and one God, the Father of all, who rules over all, works through all and is in all.
    Ephesians 4:4-6

    There is only ONE set of commands, just as there is only ONE YHWH, If you have seen Yeshua, you have seen the Father. There is only ONE faith, and this is to bring back the lost sheep of the house of Israel together with the house of Judah as spoken of in Hebrews 8:8-10 which is directly linked to Jeremiah 31:31-33.
    March 8 at 1:34am · Edited · Like · 2
  • Diane Joy Walden 1119 sure are cockey little bast...:):):) geez you guys...
  • Diane Joy Walden 119sorry I made one boo-boo...
  • Eric Turner 119? Which one the real one, the one claiming we are a cult, or the 119 defense page?
  • Joyfully Growing In Grace TEisNaC - 
    Galatians 2:11-15
    11When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray. 

    14When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? 

    15“We who are Jews by birth and not ‘Gentile sinners’ 16know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.
  • Joyfully Growing In Grace Eric, how many folks do you know that keep law perfectly? I only know ONE . . . and He is Christ Jesus .
  • Bernard Yosef Honigfort Joyfully Growing In Grace, that is where many Christians do not understand the concept of keeping the Torah. If we stumble Grace catches us.
  • Bernard Yosef Honigfort Here is what many of my brothers and sisters, me included, believe.

    Proclamation of Faith:

    I am an Israelite, grafted into the vine of Abraham. I worship YHWH the Father of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob(Israel), who sent His Son Yeshua to die for my sins on the cross in order to bring back a people that He dispersed throughout the nations. I believe that you and I can have fellowship with Him if you understand that you have broken His laws, repent, turn away from the world and back towards Him. Then put your full faith in Him and learn to love the things that He loves. That also means striving to keep His Torah (laws and statutes) in order that the world might recognize that you are part of His people. When we fail, grace catches us.
  • Bill Garofalo Bernard, I agree that we should strive to keep God's commands and that when we fail, his grace catches us. That is a good way to explain it. That being the case, the folks that love our Heavenly Father and Accept Christ as their Messiah, if THOSE folks fail too, more so than some of us, does God's grace catch them too?? I ask because I had one of your buddies tell me that if someone is breaking the Sabbath, they are not saved. And realize, they break it because they don't realize they are breaking it. In their mind, they love our Father just as much as you do, but for whatever reason, they haven't been convicted of obeying it, or God hasn't opened their eyes to it yet.
  • Faith, Grace & Torah We are judged by the truth we know, if we're told and still refuse it is by this were judged, if we never are told we are not held accountable for what we don't know,
    March 8 at 2:28am via mobile · Like · 1
  • Bernard Yosef Honigfort There is a fine line there Bill; there will be some who fall under Matthew 7:21-23

    21 "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord!' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, only those who do what my Father in heaven wants. 
    22 On that Day, many will say to me, `Lord, Lord! Didn't we prophesy in your name? Didn't we expel demons in your name? Didn't we perform many miracles in your name?' 
    23 Then I will tell them to their faces, `I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!'
    Matthew 7:21-23

    10 At that time many will be trapped into betraying and hating each other, 
    11 many false prophets will appear and fool many people; 
    12 and many people's love will grow cold because of increased distance from Torah.
    Matthew 24:10-12

    Lawlessness = Distance from Torah
  • Bill Garofalo Yes 119, but I have told people this before and they are not convinced. I know these people love God very much and serve HIM in many ways. I can't explain why some of us see and some don't. But to say they are not saved because they can't or don't understand "certain" commands.??? And it is not as if they say, TRUE the sabbath IS the 7th day, and I refuse to obey it, they just don't seem to be convicted of it or understand it.
  • Bernard Yosef Honigfort I understand what you are saying Bill.
  • Don Barber Bill, may I send you something to read that might help.
  • Evelyn Lachance Jesus couldn't keep ALL of Torah since He wasn't a married or single woman, a farmer, a Levite, etc.... So I guess those folks are left out as He didn't keep it on their behalf so they didn't have to. 
  • Evelyn Lachance John the Baptist's parents DID KEEP TORAH 
    Luke 1:6 says so:
    Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing ALL the Lord's commandments and regulations blamelessly.
    March 8 at 3:27am · Edited · Like · 3
  • Evelyn Lachance Does anyone think that consulting proponents of Chrislam for the Bible Miniseries to be a good idea? I wouldn't think so. And let's not forget Roma Downey's Catholic background weighed into this as well.
  • Cassandra Baldovinos You say we can't keep Torah perfectly, what happened to Philippians 4:13? I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

    Because through HIM, I can keep it.
  • Cassandra Baldovinos ^^ that verse is thrown around for the simplest of things. But can't seem to apply to this.
  • Terri Short Hill John 14:23-24 "Yeshua answered him, “If someone loves me, he will keep my word; and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Someone who doesn’t love me doesn’t keep my words — and the word you are hearing is not my own but that of the Father who sent me."

    1 John 5:1-5 "5 Everyone who believes that Yeshua is the Messiah has God as his father, and everyone who loves a father loves his offspring too. 2 Here is how we know that we love God’s children: when we love God, we also do what he commands. 3 For loving God means obeying his commands. Moreover, his commands are not burdensome, 4 because everything which has God as its Father overcomes the world. And this is what victoriously overcomes the world: our trust. 5 Who does overcome the world if not the person who believes that Yeshua is the Son of God?"

    Judges 2:1 "Then the Angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said: “I led you up from Egypt and brought you to the land of which I swore to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you."

    Psalm 119:11 "I treasure your word in my heart,
    so that I won’t sin against you."

    Isaiah 43:3 "For I am the Lord your God,
    The Holy One of Israel, your Savior"

    Isaiah 43:10-15 “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
    “And My servant whom I have chosen,
    That you may know and believe Me,
    And understand that I am He.
    Before Me there was no God formed,
    Nor shall there be after Me.
    11 I, even I, am the Lord,
    And besides Me there is no savior.
    12 I have declared and saved,
    I have proclaimed,
    And there was no foreign god among you;
    Therefore you are My witnesses,”
    Says the Lord, “that I am God.
    13 Indeed before the day was, I am He;
    And there is no one who can deliver out of My hand;
    I work, and who will reverse it?”
    14 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
    The Holy One of Israel:
    “For your sake I will send to Babylon,
    And bring them all down as fugitives—
    The Chaldeans, who rejoice in their ships.
    15 I am the Lord, your Holy One,
    The Creator of Israel, your King.”

    Isaiah 43:25 "I, yes I, am the one who blots out
    your offenses for my own sake;
    I will not remember your sins."
    March 8 at 5:56am · Edited · Like · 1
  • Laima Briediene Brother Eric Turner ,you nailed it about GROWING IN GRACE with these verses !!! 

    2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 
    2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 
    2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of LAWLESS people and lose your own stability. 
    2Pe 3:18 But grow in the grace  and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

    HalleluYAH !
  • Joyfully Growing In Grace Folks, lawless people are those who claim to keep the Law but don't . Even Israel who had the Temple and the Levitical Priesthood could not keep it:
    Romans 2:17-24
    17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

    The Righteousness of Christ is more to be desired:

    Romans 10:1-4
    1Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
  • Joyfully Growing in Torah Out of context verse fail. Paul is preaching against HYPOCRISY, not teaching God's Law to people. Teaching against obedience to God's Law is lawlessness, not simply being a fallen sinful human.
  • Faith, Grace & Torah Joyfully Growing In Grace 

    Romans 2 speaks of the hypocrisy of the jews who boasted of keeping the Law but in reality were the worst offenders of it! He wasn't speaking about people just obeying the law! 

    Again In Romans 10 the righteousness of Christ is then backed up by quoting Deuteronomy 

    Rom 10:5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them."[2]
    Rom 10:6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, "Who will ascend into heaven?"'[3] (that is, to bring Messiah down from above)
    Rom 10:7 or, ""Who will descend into the abyss?"'[4] (that is, to bring Messiah up from the dead).
    Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart"[5] (that is, the word of faith which we preach):

    Of course none can perfectly keep the law but wasn't paul also who said: 

    Rom 2:13 for it is (24) not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
  • Diane Joy Walden Wow... In a way... Maybe I am glad I am a newbie... Never could compete with you... Lots to know. Lots to say... The truth lies somewhere ... Not sure where... I don't think I shall really ever know... You may not either... 

    My heartfelt warm of care     and liove to all if you..



    "Diane Joy"...
  • Steven King -- Folks, lawless people are those who claim to keep the Law but don't--

    Nope.

    According to Strong's G458

    ἀνομία (anomia) the condition of without law; contempt and violation of law

    Matthew 7 - "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work LAWLESSNESS."

    Notice that they did not claim to keep the law. They were Christians who did wonderful things in the name of Jesus. Yet notice that he dismisses them because they were without law.
  • Faith, Grace & Torah They did not keep the Torah (instructions; mistranslated law). 

    10 At that time many will be trapped into betraying and hating each other, 
    11 many false prophets will appear and fool many people; 
    12 and many people's love will grow cold because of increased distance from Torah.
    Matthew 24:10-12
  • Eric Turner JGIG, what happened to Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. 
    ?????????????? Or, Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye     shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. 
    ?????????????? Or, 1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 
    1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 
    ??????????
  • Eric Turner Lack of Faith and lack of convistion is the problem, not keeping the Torah 
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